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 Units not available

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RazvanD
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PostSubject: Units not available   Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:37 am

As far as I can tell, you can't build some units e.g. when plying Knights you can't train Knight Lords and Knight Champions, and when playing The Undead, you can't morph into slayer knight, doom knight, wraiths/shadows.
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Patrick_the_Winekiller
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PostSubject: Re: Units not available   Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:34 am

This is not a bug. Certain units can only be gained through retinue, quests or special events. I have moved this topic into the balance issues forum to further discuss it.
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warlord4
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PostSubject: 484 (lol)   Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:55 am

Hmm. That's interesting. That's even in skirmish mode? I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying, but I like that idea a lot. Though it will be hard to balance all races against each other, but it will make those units much more valuable to have. I'm going to guess that if it's like that every skirmish you have though, some people would ask for an option in the 'create game' screen to enable/disable that option. I can't really say my preference at the moment.

As far as balance, this would make spells like daemongate much more powerful..
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Harshit
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PostSubject: Is the Skirmish mode going to be removed in final version?   Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:19 am

Not being able to build even wraiths is a serious set back for undead. While playing the treasure trove map. My whole army kept getting destroyed by harpies in early game. The guardian skull is weak and due to low combat gets very few hits. 6-8 of them were killed by a single harpy without getting much hurt.
In later game when more powerful fliers started coming i had to settle down with building only Liches. Its difficult with undead because their lvl 1-2 eyrie units also dont do any damage against fliers.

And for Fey- 1st i was surprised to find faery dragons absent. It is usually the core of fey army. but i guess they are switched to the new race. Next the leprechaun. which is needed to staff the weak fey towers (keeping the magic attack) along with the gold income which helps mass produce dragons.
Nonetheless the upgraded pixie and bringing sprite to lvl 2 helps a lot.

Also about the builders - I noticed you have tried to bring a uniformity in their stats and price. Which is very good. But this doesnt go well in case of the oakman. It is supposed to be half as strong as treant. Also being the only unit costing stone its cost doesnt hurt. And fey really need a sturdy oakman meat shield to protect their ranged units and unicorns.

You mentioned something about new Combat system. If possible it would be good to either include speed of unit to affect attack speed. Or make the zephyr skills to increase both movement speed and attack speeds.

Lastly about these special units gained only through events things is understandable for campaign. But in skirmish mode having no way to produce doom knight, even though undead have lots of upgrades directed to them, is weird. Are they going to be unlocked after we once complete the campaign.
Or is Skirmish mode only for beta testing??
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Patrick_the_Winekiller
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PostSubject: Re: Units not available   Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:05 am

Many good points there, Harshit. Thanks. A lot of unit stats tweaking must be made!

Skirmish mode will be as is, special units will be obtainable through retinue, spells, events, and special buildings (new ones that work like temples). The powerups weren't touched by the mod at all yet.

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Last edited by Patrick_the_Winekiller on Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Faestus
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PostSubject: Re: Units not available   Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:11 am

Since we're talking about ballance, you removed vital units and left them with a infantry, ranged, general and cavalry. Yea that seems great, and might seem more balanced to you, but for more points it is not.
First, certain races bring powerful units in game. These units have splash and good combat (see T. Rex, Knight Champion), the slaughter any 40 hp 10 damage units, those guys stand no chance. Have you tried playing Orc vs Knight? Seriously! It's painful! Your guys deal nothing to those powerful Knights. Ogres were vital units for Orcs, core units, nothing replaces them, without those, Orcs are useless. Wolf Riders and Trolls are trash. Also untouched Siege. 3 player bases were razed by battering rams, who provide a good meat wall, catapults, who crush anything around the rams and ballistae, that manage to kill anything that tries getting past rams. Seriously, all you need is these three guys. Make siege have 40 health and give rams 2 damage and a *100 damage versus buildings like in AoE2.

Secondly, it gives poor unit variety. Everything is boring. All you have to do is set your units on infinite production and set them to attack-move at a location. It doesn't even require resource management or a certain strategy. No, all units do the same thing, all races do the same thing. You might set the Ai manage your base. All he has to do is level Keep, build enough buildings so that your mines can sustain your troops and attack move. You removed special strategy units, like Spores. Or you removed core units, that leaves races nothing to do but mass all random units. You need to give units more archetypes. There are too many infantry, shadowed by advanced infantry, for instance Swarm, why build Husk if you have Scorpions, Plague, why build Ghouls when you can mass Slimes, why Swordsmen when you can mass Knights. In my opinion this has to be hit first. Too many units can be just skipped or ignored because theya re useless. This is important since you narrowed down the units.

Third, races are too simple. Take swarm, for instance, they have 5 units, 2 strategies: either mas randomly and take over the map, or mass fire ellies. Ssrathi can do nothing, now that the Snakepriests and T Rex are useless (yes, useless, not balanced, priests can be 2-shot), undead have nothing left but the Liche Mass, those Doomknighs weren't worth the price. And it's not just the strategies. Most races have up to 5 units, 3 generic melee one caster and one ranged. Empire falls here too. Pikemen do nothing compared to Halberdiers. Also how Harshit said, you removed crucial units from races ad exposed retarded vulnerabilities, like no real anti-air unit (Orcs and Undead),
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Patrick_the_Winekiller
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PostSubject: Re: Units not available   Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:11 am

Most units have been "unlocked" and rebalanced in 0.8.4. In regards to the topic's title, all units are now available. Topic closed.

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