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 Opinions about Perks

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Mealstorm
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PostSubject: Opinions about Perks   Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:53 am

Hi I don't have anyone to talk about this, thus I decided to create post.
What is your opinion about Perks?

At start I saw them as interesting way how to increase variability.
However after few hundreds games I see them mostly as useless point consumers or as poorly balanced feature.

In my humble option on each perk:

Good-Evil - No real improvement, waste of points
Timid-Daring - I guess this one is okayish
Aristocratic-Plutocratic - Kinda situational, heavily dependant on race up to the point where it is completly op. Good example are deamons, where longer times almost doesn't matter at all and lower prices extremely help
Saint-Heathen - Extremely situational, not worth of points
Altruistic - Selfish - Here I am not even sure if I understand it correctly, because I can't believe such unbalanced thing could have been implemented. All the way Selfish, it's pretty much free resources in 99% of battles. Old campaign is pretty much whole solo. In skirmish it is optional but personally I play 55% games solo, 40% games in team of 2 and maybe 5% as 3vs3. Even once you end up 3vs1 it is still 0-0 thus you dont lose anything and once it is 3vs1 you are pretty much guaranteed to win anyway. Only exception is The Protectors campaign, where you have actually some allies.

Profeciencies are different story, because you mainly choose only 1 which is most compatible with your hero and they also seems to me better balanced:
Introvert-Extrovert - I am inclined to Introvert, high level retinues eat too many points and regular units doesn't carry to another fights, while your hero experience is always welcomed.
Quick Fighter-Quick Runner - No negative effects, this is clearly Quick Fighter for autoattack based hero, Quick runner for rest.
Efficient Fighter - Fast Fighter - Both of them doesn't seem to me very impressive. I tried to full crit hero, it doesn't really work that well. I don't think crit is worth to be sacrificed for little speed.
Young but weak - Old but hardened - Imho health regeneration bonus could be higher, otherwise this one is okay.
Durable builder - Fast builder - This one seems okay. Works well both ways.
Liberal - Severe - Another okay.
Traditionalist - Experimentalist - You can save 15 points for 25% extra mana cost or you can spend 18 point to get 25% cheaper spells. I tried it both and at the end 25% mana doesn't seem to be big deal at higher levels. Spell cast chance is imho far superior as it let you cast much more powerful abilities.
Quantity-Quality - I didn't try this one yet, because I am kinda confused about this one. It says -25% food consuption - which would mean 0 food consuption with 4 points in. Morale increase number of units you can sustain without building right?
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Patrick_the_Winekiller
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions about Perks   Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:55 am

Thank you for your feedback,

Funny thing, just today we modified the perks to make them more useful and interesting. We're still debating on some aspects, but your opinions are already taken into consideration.

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Mealstorm
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions about Perks   Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:01 am

Patrick_the_Winekiller wrote:
Thank you for your feedback,

Funny thing, just today we modified the perks to make them more useful and interesting. We're still debating on some aspects, but your opinions are already taken into consideration.

Oh nice, could you reveal what changes are you making to perks?

Also I have tried Recruting today (I dont know if you changed it yet) and it seems like Quantity-Quality is completly broken. Quantity makes units actually cost more points while Quality makes them cheaper and at 5 points Quality you actually get points from making units. High level necro with 5 points in quality is kinda hilarious.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions about Perks   Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:56 pm

the big to do list wrote:
Fast Fighter - No changes done Smile
Efficient Fighter - No changes done Smile
Young but Weak - Your hero gets +50% HP regeneration but receives -20HP done
Old but Hardened - Your hero gets +30 HP but receives -50% HP regeneration done
Durable Builder - Your buildings get +20 HP but are 4% slower to build done
Fast Builder - Your buildings are 4% faster to build but get -20 HP done
Traditionalist - No changes done Smile
Experimentalist - No changes done Smile
Quantity - Gives +5% food but -2 Morale done
Quality - Gives +2 Morale but -5% food done
Quick Runner - Your hero gets +4% movement speed done
Quick Fighter - Your hero gets +3% attack speed done

Good - Your hero is good-aligned (perhaps at high enough levels, even the hero’s units could share the hero’s alignment?) We must give a reason to invest more than one point in it, so at level 5 all your units become good aligned. Perhaps we can leave the hero neutral if he is -/+1 in either? Then you become good at level 2-4 and super good at 5 That seems good to me done
Evil - Your hero is evil-aligned done
Advocate - Your hero supports his/her faction (atm, just influences campaigns?) done
Traitor - Your hero is against his/her faction done
Timid - Your hero is 1% more resistant to criticals but is 1% less likely to perform them done
Daring - Your hero gets +1% critical chance but is 1% more likely to receive them done
Altruistic - Gives +0.5 Morale but increases the cost of units by 1% done
Selfish - Decreases cost of units by 1% but gives -0.5 Morale done
Aristocratic - No changes done
Plutocratic - No changes done
Introvert - Your hero gets +1% HP/MP regeneration but your units receive -0.1*XP done
Extrovert - Your units get +0.1*XP but your hero gets -1% HP/MP regeneration done

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions about Perks   Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:34 pm

Patrick_the_Winekiller wrote:

Young but Weak - Your hero gets +50% HP regeneration but receives -20HP done
Old but Hardened - Your hero gets +30 HP but receives -50% HP regeneration done


Wait. Does this mean per point? So if you invest 5 points in Old but Hardened you will get -250% regeneration? As far as it seems to me, how game works, it would mean my hero will degenerate at 150% of speed. Or it actually works like increase regeneration time by 250% ?


One more question. Would be possible to set perks during hero creation? I would prefer to be not spending precious points into something which doesn't really boost you, however it still modifies your playstyle. I see perks as something which defines your hero like class and race, rather than something which increase your stats or skills.
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions about Perks   Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:02 am

Yeah, in future versions the perks will probably only be modified by campaign events or some specific quests or other ways, rather than investing AP on level up.

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PostSubject: Re: Opinions about Perks   Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:56 am

Aye, we pretty much had the same conclusions Smile. Perks have mostly been fixed in 0.8.6 but will split off into two different categories in future. Half will be in a new 'Psychology' section which can be freely chosen on character generation and changes with campaign and quest actions. The other half will be interesting, unique Race/Class perks which can be invested in as they are now. Due to time constraints, we won't be seeing this until the future though (possibly 0.8.7?). Instead, perks have just been balanced as they are with only a few receiving new functions (usually the broken ones).

Proficiencies have also been rebalanced. 'None' no longer exists and has become essentially a new proficiency (mostly because bonus hero XP was useless since you could just play an extra map to get more XP...).
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PostSubject: Re: Opinions about Perks   Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:32 am

I would not say more exp is useless. Playing another map also means more time spent to gain that level.

However I don't mind this one being removed. I didn't really picked it anyway. It's kinda boring one.

I am glad to hear about perks rework. It's nice to be on same page with you guys.
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