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 When are you going to nerf fighters?

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t1it
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PostSubject: When are you going to nerf fighters?   Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:52 am

Hi,
What the title's saying. It's boring to 3-4 shot anything on the map with my warrior. All you need is decent gear + levels. Fighters scale too hard with stats (mostly gear) too fast. Even powerful class/race combos like Undead Necros are a joke compared to a mid-level warrior with at least 3 good items.

Every new release, it's the same thing; I eventually create a warrior/monk and start playing campaign. Then after a while, I become so powerful everything feels totally pointless.

I have no problem with classes like assassins (despite being annoying as hell) because they can't do everything at once. Warriors on the other hand can survive anything, while destroying anyone near them in couple of seconds. I really like this mod and it's doing better with each release but I'm not sure of it's future if it's keeping this horrible imbalance between the classes.
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Joe the Bartender
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PostSubject: Re: When are you going to nerf fighters?   Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:46 am

Fear not, this is precisely the issue we're looking into right now.
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t1it
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PostSubject: Re: When are you going to nerf fighters?   Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:21 am

Very, very good to hear Joe. Good luck with next release!
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TwelveStep
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PostSubject: Re: When are you going to nerf fighters?   Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:09 am

My 2 cents: Keep Strength and Dex mostly as they are, but nerf all the "melee combat" skills to offer only double, per point, of what each point of Strength and Dex offer.

I forget the names of all the skills, but...
1 armor per point
2 Combat per point (though I would recommend nerfing strength to +0.25 Combat per point and Ferocity to 0.5 per point, because Combat is really strong.)
2 damage per point
etc...


That way 4 points in Strength = 2 Combat, 2 Damage, 10 HP and 0.66 regeneration.

While one point in each of the corresponding skills would offer the same. It'll let people specialize in what they want, though, but then also limit the levels for those to half character level. So, they have to spread things out more to be effective.

But then I would also suggest doing counters, like armor piercing, to be done with the same values as the apposing stat boosting skill. 1 armor piercing per point. And likewise with spell casting skills like Energy in comparison to the spell casting attributes.

Maybe decrease unit HP boosting Rune skills to +2 or +3 HP per point after some balance testing.

Then looking into adjusting spell buffs accordingly after some testing.

I feel this would mostly only leave resource increasing skills to be slightly over powered, but that's an easy adjustment.

All of this would also make items a bit more useful, which I kind of feel they should be.

That should let Warriors be useful in fights, but not simply one make wrecking crews while also not letting casters be better than them at melee prowess through buffs.

I was also thinking perhaps add more Rune skills. Even if it's just for irregular units for each faction.

Sellsword Rune for Empire Mercenaries
Something for Gnolls, Dwarf Runners, maybe. Things like that.
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Imonibus
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PostSubject: Re: When are you going to nerf fighters?   Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:12 am

I was going to post a different thread about heroes but since we have one here I'll give my two cents right here and now.

As per earlier comments, fighter classes are way ahead of any other. I'd love to play a support/charismatic leader (Empire is my favorite race), but they seem to be quite gimped and trumped hard by fighters.

Here's something even worse I discovered. If you roll a Knight Monk and invest most of your points into Invulnerability and Resistance skills with some remainders into stats (STR and DEX), the hero pretty much becomes immune to any damage without any good gear. I'm at level 13 with him now and I have some white gear.

I have something around 75+ armor, ~80 resistance to elements and 105 magic res. The only time I ran into some trouble was fighting 9 Pit Fiends on the Malbec level but I was level 10 then. I have no set, cursed or unique items on me, so I imagine that with good enough gear you could be totally invulnerable.

Monks seem to have an insane set of skills for fighters as you can have both high AS, high resistances (no armor if you don't roll Knight) and high damage. I grabbed a +4 life on hit sword which makes things even worse. High AS also allows you to grab items that cast spells on hit and there's some really strong stuff there.

I guess that by level 20 I'll be able to put a crushing weapon on my hero and just A click enemy bases and win.

Would it be possible to disable certain classes for races? This might be one solution to avoid OP combos in the future. I don't feel I'm qualified enough as a good player to comment on balance otherwise.

Also, maybe implement diminishing returns for certain skills or diminishing returns for hero armor and res? That's what most other games did - for example Warcraft III had diminishing returns on increasing armor and resistances.

P.S. Is there any way I could help you guys out or join the efforts for this game in my free time?
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Joe the Bartender
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PostSubject: Re: When are you going to nerf fighters?   Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:02 am

Imonibus wrote:
P.S. Is there any way I could help you guys out or join the efforts for this game in my free time?

Sure! I'd recommend joining our discord channel here (and posting into Dev Questions/Suggestions).
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LordVandor1
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PostSubject: He's pretty much right   Wed May 17, 2017 3:53 am

I love the idea that a high-level Warrior is a pure destroying machine that obliterates everything he finds. But that shouldn't happen at level 20. That should happen at, like, 50. And with good items. It's normal that a level 50 Warrior should be unstoppable for normal units and pretty much only be defeatable by magic or titans.
But having a level 10 Warrior with 70 Combat (if you put most of the points on Ferocity),
just doesn't sound right. At all. I play with a Warrior and I try to be as fair as possible by assigning points wrong, like Cha and Int which he doesn't need.
This is a real issue here.

Also stats give too little bonuses, at least at start, while skills cost half and have much more effect. Might as well give only 3 points, but make attributes cost 1, or give fixed points for different things (2 attribute points, 3 skill points, perhaps nerfing both).
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